Tona: 0:02

The We Pivot podcast is for you if you're a woman who has recently pivoted into entrepreneurship. You'll find digital marketing tips, trends and strategies to help grow your business in today's digital world. Join Tona and Al Haywood as we have fun breaking down all things digital marketing, so sit back, relax and enjoy the show. Hello everyone and welcome back to the we Pivot podcast. Today we have a guest, and her name is Shaunda Head. She is a dope, different brand strategist and messaging expert who helps women use their own unique voice to brand their differences so they can be seen and heard. Her superpower is teaching women how to express themselves in their brand so they can send out the bat signal to their perfect fit clients. Shaunda has over 20 years of experience, including digital marketing, brand building, copywriting and communications, and has been featured by such platforms as Essence, magazine, time, Sirrus XM, create and Cultivate and Motherly. I am so glad that she is here. Welcome, shonda.

Shaunda: 1:24

Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here.

Tona: 1:27

Yes, I am happy too, and just to let you know, the one thing that Shaunda I can attest does very well is copywriting, because her emails always gets me clicking, always, always gets me clicking, always. Thank you, you're so welcome. So is it possible if you could share your journey into branding and marketing and what inspired you to start SHH Creative LLC?

Shaunda: 2:00

Yeah, so I've always been a creative. I consider myself a lover of all things creative. So I grew up really as an artist painting, drawing, also writing, of course and so I went to school for graphic design Actually, back then they called it graphic communications but I went to undergrad for graphic design, did some internships and then went straight into grad school because I really and truly thought I was going to work for like Pixar and I really wanted to make like Toy Story type movies. I wanted to go computer animation, but once I got there I used kind of my portfolio to get in and so I went into the design side and so I studied broadcast design and motion graphics. So that means because a lot of people like, well, what is that? I learned editing, so a lot of post-production. But I also was learning how to do animation for television. So when you watch the news, they call them lower thirds, where you see like the captions and the graphics at the bottom. When you watch NBA games, the logo animates in. All that kind of stuff was what I was studying. So I came out of school and started working. I was really always the only designer on these huge teams of marketers and strategists. I've also been in business development departments, so I was always the one creative. But what that did allow me to do was allow me to learn more outside, and it allowed me to learn what these larger companies were doing in terms of branding and marketing, because everything that I knew was more the freelance route.

Shaunda: 3:36

I started freelancing when I was 18, did my first logo for my mom's hairdresser for $50. And that started a very long, illustrious career of $50 logos, club flyers, you know for, like when it was Black Knight, they used to hit me up for those club flyers for $50, annual reports, like all kinds of print design stuff. And then in 2017, I decided I've been freelancing for for since I was 18 at that point and I have kind of all this knowledge that I've learned in corporate, but I really was not allowed to kind of use my full potential in corporate. It's kind of like, here's the box that you came in for. Now we're going to tell you to do work that you were not hired for. You got to do that too. The vision kept getting farther and farther away. So in 2017, I quit my job.

Shaunda: 4:28

At that time, I was working at an engineering firm doing marketing and the business development, writing RFPs, so like winning them all the money, I think, at last count. When I walked out the door, we were at $9 million that we had secured in less than a year, and so that's why they wanted me to keep doing those RFPs. And I was like no, I came here for the website, I came here to fix all this other stuff that you guys need help with. So anyway, long story short, I left there and really put my whole focus into doing the work that I had been doing, but doing it for the clients that I really wanted to work with, which, for me, were women, small businesses owned by women. I had a lot of friends who were like C-suite and I'm like you have so much Like let's start a business, I'll do your brand and all these things, and they're like it's so hard, it's so hard. And then I realized that I was privy to a lot of conversations that other were not in the room for, and so I was looking at my peers and seeing how all their networking and I'm like none of my friends are privy to this information, so let me be the one that gives it to them, and that's kind of how.

Shaunda: 5:43

Since then, that's just how I've kind of just been marketing myself is I'm speaking to women who own small businesses. I just actually learned in the past year all of my clients have been the age of 40 and up, and I'll be 42 in two months. So I was like, wait a minute. All of my clients are women in their forties and I'm like this is exactly why I did this. I wanted to speak to women who were like me, who had skillset and had talent, and if they needed some resources to help them start their business, market their business, I wanted to be that resource and I literally just looked a couple of weeks ago and was like, oh, my goodness, everybody is me Like for real, for real this time, yeah, but that's how I got here.

Shaunda: 6:34

I was supposed to be a graphic designer. I really had an itching to get into marketing. I was very intimidated by that. I'll say that because when people place you in a box, you kind of say, yeah, this is my label, this is who I'm supposed to be, and so I always thought of myself as an artist, and so I was not able to view myself as the strategist or having all the data or being able to do all these things. So what I did was I took a lot of courses Once I quit my job.

Shaunda: 7:00

I had a lot of free time, I took a lot of courses. I was on everybody's free webinar. I was. I found a coach who was in the marketing space because I had a business coach at that time but I found someone who was really, really dialed into the marketing space and digital marketing and all the data and the KPIs and all those things that I wanted to learn, and so I just like got up under her wing, like teach me everything. And that's where I've been kind of ever since. I love the craft and I love the way I do it. I think I do it in a way that's different and, because of my background, is very eclectic, and then you slap some strategy on top of that. So that's how I got here.

Tona: 7:45

Wow, I mean that is amazing, and I know, with the digital marketing, you actually came out of your job just pretty much a year after I came out, because I came out 2016 and you came out 2017. So trying to find resources was very difficult back then because it was almost like there wasn't really a name for it. The digital marketing that term wasn't really dialed in just yet, and so you were doing different things, like you might've been starting a Facebook page and you have that piece. You might have started to dabble in email marketing. You've heard about SEO, but you kind of was like, ooh, that's too much for me. So you know, but you didn't really have someone to really explain what digital marketing was, because most people didn't really know at the time, so it seemed like it took time. So you finding somebody that can actually help point you in the right direction with digital marketing and give you the knowledge that you needed that's really, really important and it's important to get that quick and not wrong.

Shaunda: 8:59

Yes, oh, my goodness, so many people are out here really trying to do work in silos, you know, and they think that actually I don't know what they think, but I just hear from so many people trying to do this alone, and even if it's just as simple as having a few besties, you know, people that you know are doing kind of similar work that you can reach out to from time to time, just to even just spill your gut to somebody who understands from time to time, just to even just spill your gut to somebody who understands. But that was so helpful to me, just having at least I at least had the knowledge like, ok, I need to learn some things because I don't know, I have been building web designs and all these kinds of things. I had a website for years, but I was not actually operating my business online. That was an entirely different ballgame. Oh, and so I was like I really need to learn the craft for myself.

Shaunda: 9:48

And then, as I was doing that, I was like, oh no, this is almost like the missing piece for everyone, and so it's not just me. So I really wanted to make sure I could learn the craft and do what I needed to do for myself. But then I wanted to make sure I could kind of distill the information into how I could help everyone who needed the resources, who are around me, who were just not privy to those kinds of conversations. But I love how you called it that it's exactly right. Digital marketing did not exist in that terminology. No, not at all. Not at all.

Tona: 10:21

Girl the crazy thing. Listen to this. I was talking to a cousin of mine who's actually in school at Indiana University, about to graduate, and she's taking classes that kind of have to do with digital marketing. But when she was telling me the type of stuff that she was doing, I was like that don't sound stuff that she was doing.

Shaunda: 10:49

I was like that don't sound. No, that ain't it. So it's, you're so right, like my nephew graduated with a marketing degree and it's like they still are not. They're teaching the marketing and marketing fundamentals and principles and things like that, and then they have to leave there and go get a job where they can learn on the job, and even on the job they're still learning kind of brick and mortar marketing. They're not learning online business, you know, and I don't know if they think online business is going to go away or something. But now we're here, guys, it's a whole different and that's what's so hard for a lot of people coming out of corporate is learning Like this is a whole different beast. Like these growing pains are something serious. Yeah, it's a whole different beast. These growing pains are something serious. Yeah, it's a whole different ballgame.

Tona: 11:26

And I guess that's the thing that was hard for us as well coming out, Because my husband he does the web design, that's what he specializes in.

Shaunda: 11:38

Oh, you're the perfect team.

Tona: 11:41

Yeah, when we were coming out, I tell you, they had programs in Chicago when we were living in Chicago to help businesses start Right, but every time we would try to go to a place that actually specialized in what we did, we couldn't find anybody. It was either coding or food, and it was like there was nothing in between. Yes, when you talk web design, they're like what's that? I don't know what that is, I don't understand. So you couldn't really be pointed in the right direction to mentors and people like that. So you have a lot of growing pains. You just try to learn as you go, because there are not many people in what you're doing or what you're trying to do.

Shaunda: 12:27

Yeah, it's definitely hard. So it's literally exactly what you said. If anyone can come across anyone who is like in their lane not even in their lane, but just in the online industry, because there's a lot of skills that are like transferable once you're running a business online or you're coaching online or what have you, even in e-commerce. But the sooner you can start learning from someone else and start networking, getting these different communities, the better. And I know sometimes it's hard to talk to people about because a lot of times that means there's going to be like money involved and if you're just starting you don't really have a lot of resources like that. But any way that you can, I'll tell you, when I found my coach, she had like a free trial. She had a free trial on her membership.

Shaunda: 13:11

I got in that membership. I think it was like two weeks, like something like 14 days, and after that it was $49. I remember because I had the first $49. I did not know where the second $49 was going to come from. But when I tell you that first month, every course that was in her membership I'm talking about, I was studying like I was back in school and so I did have that next payment when it came back around. But that's literally how you have to start. Sometimes you know you start for free and then, when you can afford it, you move forward. But definitely that's the best thing you can do is to really start as soon as possible, that is so true.

Tona: 13:48

Oh girl, that was good. I still got some other questions. So why do you think having a strong brand identity is essential for businesses today? And basically, what I see a lot of businesses doing a lot of times is, either they're focused on okay, I want a brand, but I want the brand to just be all my favorite colors on my website and put it together. That just works for me.

Al: 14:21

That's my favorite color, that's what I'm going to be in when I take my photos, those colors that's going to go with the website.

Tona: 14:28

you know all that, so explain to me why it's having a strong brand and what does it mean to have a strong brand.

Shaunda: 14:38

Oh my gosh, I'm sorry I'm having flashbacks. I just had a session with a client, like last week, talking about these brand colors. They came in the door with these brand colors. Let me be clear, but a lot of people think that your brand is, you know, like your logo on your website that is not your logo on your website are assets for your brand and they really support what your brand is. And so I think it was Jeff Bezos who said this, or some other like older white man, I'm sure but who said that your brand is perception of you when you're not in the room, of you and your company. So it's almost like what experience that you're leaving with your target audience? What experience are you leaving with your customers? What will they say about you when you're not in the room? And so, when we think about it in those terms, there's a lot of stuff that goes into that. Yes, some of that is your logo, some of that is your website. It's also your content, your copywriting, your marketing funnels, your social media, the top of your funnels. So if you have any podcasts, anything like that. So for me, your brand is an entire system, and the reason why I think of it that way is because at the center of your system to me it's just my philosophy, but at the center of your system is your brand message. If your brand message is locked in and if you built a brand system around that message, then at any point when someone enters your ecosystem, they will get what you're trying to give. If it's not built in that way, they might come to your social media and then say, hey, let me click the link in bio and then get to your website and then be like, oh wait, no, this is not. This person's coming across differently over here, and we call those things friction points in marketing, right? So every time there's a new step in your funnel, you've got a point where some people are going to fall out the funnel right there. So what are you going to do about it? If you build a brand system that is really working in alignment, all on one accord, then you have to worry less about those kinds of things.

Shaunda: 16:40

So to me, your brand and your brand identity it gets to be really strong when it is based on a strong brand message, and that also means that you have to be really clear about who you're talking to in your message too, because the message can't be clear. If, like, if it ain't clear, then it ain't. That ain't your brand message, right? So for me, that's what a strong brand identity is, and it's really necessary at this time because what we know is that, you know, during COVID, internet traffic doubled. It probably has tripled by now, and now we're now recording this in 2024.

Shaunda: 17:17

As of 2023, like in our online industry, they're saying that income and revenue has gone down, like 30 to 50% for some people. So that means there's a lot more competition. There's a lot more, you know, there are more people looking, but that also means you can easily get lost in the sea. So you really have to find a way to stand out and to make your brand stronger, more memorable, just so that your brand identity can go a little higher and higher, because just of everyone and everything that you're competing against and when I say, I am one of those people who says there is no competition or whatever the phrase is, but I truly believe it's really about you.

Shaunda: 18:05

And when we get into entrepreneurship, we hear a lot about ideal client, dream client, this ideal client, avatar, that. But when you are kind of like this ideal client avatar, that. But when you are kind of like stepping into your brand fully yourself or as much as you're willing to bring to the table. My belief is you're actually able to kind of cut through the noise even faster, like even a straighter line. It's like you make a beeline to the people who resonate with exactly that. So that's where I'm always coming from with everything. For me, that's how you build a strong brand identity. You really anchor your brand and your message in you and your thoughts and your values and in the work that you are, kind of like, best suited to do. And then you put that message out there, you build a brand around it and you turn on the bat signal so that you can call in the people who resonate with that message and who resonate with the person that you're showing up as.

Tona: 18:59

That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. But I guess most times because there's so much coming at us and we're looking at everybody else's brand and how beautiful it is and how they're coming through, that we want to emulate that instead of coming through as ourself. And that's the part that's hard, because we have to remove the distractions of the others, of everyone else. Yes, competitive, you're not even a competitive nature of that. Wanting that comparison and wanting to be well there is just beautiful and how they come across, how they talk, how they do their emails, how they do this, this, this and this and they want to be that and then themselves they get lost in that, in trying to come up with their brand their brand message and 100.

Shaunda: 19:52

That's what happens. I like to tell people stop, stop copying them people, because it's so many. Sometimes it's like your coach or the guru that you follow and you want to be like them, so you emulate them. But it works for them because they're them. It also works for them because they at the finish line already right, you haven't built up to that. And then sometimes you're looking at your peers and you're thinking, well, why didn't I think of that? Or I wanted to do that. Now she's done that, so I can't do it, and all these things, and it's very normal, it's kind of the first thing that happens.

Shaunda: 20:25

So I'm always knock on people like okay, come on, like get your head out, come on, put your blinders on. You know, I know you're thinking this. I know it because we all do it, we've all done it, we're all going to do it. We always have to all bring ourselves back. Let's bring it back, because I'm just here to kind of bring you back, because there are things that are inherent in you that will work for you and once you key in on those things, it's like everything changes and then people are going to be looking at you like trying to do what you do, you know. But oh yeah, it's one of the harder parts, and it also happens very early on, and so that's also what makes it hard, because we get stuck in that place.

Shaunda: 21:06

I like to think of it like people might be even three years into their business before they even realize that's what they've been doing. All along. They've been trying to show up as someone else and do as someone else, and then it's like OK, now that I can acknowledge that about what I've been doing, let's start fresh and let's kind of figure out me. I like to think of it as the message that I'm here for, like what is? It's almost like what is your purpose? What is the message that you are here to bring forth? What is that? Let's start there and let's build.

Tona: 21:39

Yes, I agree. I mean that I think that's the best way to do it. Sometimes, like when, when you're starting out, you have an idea of what you're doing and what you think that you want to do, but just kind of how you said earlier, you found out that most of your clients were women and they were in their 40s and you were pretty much tailoring your offerings to those women and sometimes it's a full circle moment For us. We realized that we also work with a lot of women and women businesses and things like that. So it's almost like, however, we started with our website, it was like oh, this doesn't work because the people that we tend to work with tend to be women. So it's almost like you're messaging and things have to change based off of what are you really doing and who are you really affecting. You know.

Shaunda: 22:38

Yeah, but isn't it cool how that happens? Because it's like we always have this real time data that we can use to make things even better or to make our work even better or resonate more, and we literally get it from. It's a cycle, right. We get it from our clients, and the more clients that we have that come in then, the more data that we have that we can then use to make our brand resonate even better for more people like that.

Tona: 23:04

So yeah, I love it, yes, I mean that is great. So what do you feel are the first steps that entrepreneurs business owners, should take when they're starting to build their brand?

Shaunda: 23:17

it's always going to come back to your message. Figure out what your brand message is and get that nailed in and so, but in that same breath, to me that also means figuring out your target audience. I teach something that I call the message mastery equation, and it's very, very simple. It's literally the way that you can master your message is to say the right thing to the right person at the right time. I have to have my ideal client. I have to laser this on them in order to create the message first, right, so for me, they go hand in hand. If you figure out who your target audience is, then you can create the message first. Right, so for me, they go hand in hand. If you figure out who your target audience is, then you can create the message that they need to. A big part of that is you really have to nail it to whatever stage the journey, right, and so that's also something that a lot of people skip, and not on purpose. But I just people just don't realize that's the difference between down your message or not. Pick what you have to say, which is basically the work that you do, the service you provide, the transformation that you can make happen. None of that matters. If you're saying it to them and they can't use it right, they can follow you. They can hit that follow button, they can subscribe, you can nurture them.

Shaunda: 24:33

But if you're just starting out, you have to get money right.

Shaunda: 24:36

You have to sell some things and the selling has to work in order for you to start having a business and then you can start having the email list and you can buy all the things that you need.

Shaunda: 24:46

So that means that when that message hits that person, they need to be in the right space for that message. So these are kind of the things that we think about when we talk about building out your brand message. But to me, that's the first thing, because you don't even need a website to sell. You just need to have a message. You need to be able to communicate your value to someone who needs what you have. That's what you need to be able to do, and once you're able to do that, you can take that knowledge and that message and use that to then create all the things in your website and stuff like that. So, to answer your question, first thing for me is to get that brand message together, which means that you got to have to focus on your ideal client. In order to get that done, focus on what they need.

Tona: 25:31

Yeah, I agree. I think that that makes perfect sense as well. Just focus on that brand message and if you find that, that maybe if you find that the brand message is not working because sometimes I feel like we have who we think our target audience is, but then we find out who it is who it actually is so just allow yourself grace in that figuring out process, absolutely, because it's not a kind yeah, it's not a concrete thing, but a lot of times at least, what I find is people want to get it perfect before they put it out there, and I'm like, no, you don't know if it works until you put it out there.

Shaunda: 26:12

You got to put it out there, you got to see what. No, you don't know if it works until you put it out there. You got to put it out there, you got to see what the people say. And then you keep tweaking and do it. But most people want to let me get it in my paper first, right? Or they want to have the session and let me make sure this is, and are we sure? And is it going to work? Nobody knows if it that's a guy right. All of this is one giant experiment, but we use the data in order to help us to be more successful, to help us to put you know like our best foot forward. But absolutely, once it goes out there, that doesn't mean it's never changing, but that means you've now started, and so we need a hand clap for you, because a lot of people don't start because they get stuck right there.

Tona: 26:51

You know what I'm saying. Stuck and scared, stuck and scared, to put it out.

Shaunda: 26:57

Yeah, and you have to put it out in order for it to start working. You have to. That's the only way you get that feedback. That's true.

Tona: 27:05

That's so true.

Shaunda: 27:06

Yeah.

Tona: 27:07

That's good. How do you feel that branding evolved with digital marketing, and what challenges and opportunities does this present?

Shaunda: 27:17

So for me, again, like, I think that your brand is an entire system. So what I mean is that they support each other, right? So, like your marketing supports your brand, that's kind of why you want them to be on one accord. What I do love about digital marketing is it has given us the tools and I know I keep saying data, but it's literally changes the game. Like I'm an expert in a membership group, in a membership community, and one of the ladies had a question about and she listed all these things. She said, well, nothing's worked. And I said, well, tell us the numbers. We need to know the numbers, because it may not even be that it didn't work. It may just be that you didn't have enough traffic to your page yet, so we don't know if it's worked or not. Because you know conversion rate. The standard is only 1% to 3%. Right, people don't know these things. That's what I love about digital marketing is that it gives us all these numbers and it's data. It. It gives us all these numbers and it's data. It's like we can have. Like we can tell you what success looks like, right, we can tell you how to forge that pathway. This is literally the reason why we're doing all these things.

Shaunda: 28:21

Going back to that conversation about the brands and the colors there is sales and marketing psychology behind these things. If you're using the color red, you gotta know what you're getting yourself into. You know what I'm saying. You got to know what things mean. Colors we actually know that colors mean certain things to our brain, so advertisers and marketers use that in marketing. These are things that really, I think before digital marketing, the common man maybe did not have much access to. Now we have access to these things. We marketers, you know, we've learned this kind of psychology stuff and we use it in our work so that we can really create the impact that we want to create, so that we can make sure the people we want to hear this message will hear this message.

Shaunda: 29:08

So I kind of love that aspect of digital marketing because it allows me to basically experiment with the brand and then go back and look at the numbers, check the funnels, look at the conversion rates, the click rates, look at the email marketing and see I can literally see at what part in the funnel did things go left? Now we can go back and we can tweak that, we can shore up that loophole, all those kinds of things. Now we can go back and we can tweak that, we can shore up that loophole, all those kinds of things. So for me, that's where the digital part of digital marketing is really successful in building brands and of course, you know, we can't leave out.

Shaunda: 29:42

Like social media, it's here to stay and it is driving everything. Now the algorithm drives everything, but that also means that it's pretty much all science, so we can then take these kind of context clues and set our brand up for success. So for me, digital marketing is really a great way to support your brand and to support you and your brand platform and get you so that people can see you. And because it is digital marketing, it's a lot easier now for, like, the common person to just learn some techniques and move forward in that way, whereas I think kind of like those foundational marketing principles you know, like that we learned in college, is kind of like a broader, more vague thing that you can really only use if you're working for some of these like global companies.

Tona: 30:35

I agree with that. Yeah, I think that's true. And the thing that you said about the numbers, I think that's the thing that most people miss and because, no, yes, girl, I can't tell you how many people that we tried to do like websites for you want your Google Analytics connect? I don't care about that, you want us to do? No, I don't care about that. You want us to do no, I don't care about that. It's like, well, that's actually important because if you don't know the information and I think this has to do with I was a science teacher biology, botany, zoology, environmental science so doing labs and experiments, that's my jam.

Tona: 31:14

So the numbers and seeing how they and it's all experiments, right, so it's like, man, if I test this email and see how much is my open rate or my click-through rate, if I do it this way, if I change this out, what's going to happen? Even with social media, I'm determined to still get more views or reach on posts on my business page. Let's see what can I do, how can I change it up? But most times people don't know the information beforehand, right? So they don't know that what is a good click-through rate, what is a good open rate? Because they may have, let's say, 40%, and they're like, oh my God, it's terrible.

Shaunda: 31:58

But they don't know what the average is.

Tona: 32:02

So you know, knowing that other information or you can't say well, my website or this isn't working, well, you're not getting enough traffic to your site to begin with. What can we do to get more traffic there, so you have more views, so that you can have more pool to choose from to actually get a conversion? So it's all Tell the people Girl, tell the people, it's all.

Shaunda: 32:32

I don't know what they think we over here doing Like I don't know what they think we doing.

Tona: 32:37

Girl like one of our podcasts is called Pretty Logos or Pretty Pictures. It's not going to get you clicks to your website, so it's like there's it's not how they going to get you clicks to your website.

Shaunda: 32:48

So it's like there's it's not how how they going to get there to see. It says how they going to get there. Everybody misses that, everybody, and you know what it is. And it's just a part of the game, because there are some careers and some things that you do that people think, oh, I could do that If I just had a little time, an extra Saturday, then I can build a website, or I can do, and not saying that you can't, because there are a lot of people who are good with their hands, you know, are able to do these things. But at least take it from us, you know, like look up some of the techniques and the strategies that we put forth things like that, because, yes, you can DIY it, but you at least want to have some guidance. You at least want to know there's always intention behind these things. So there's reasoning.

Shaunda: 33:30

When we are branding, when we are building logos and websites, there are reasons why we have a certain number of pages. There are reasons why you're opting bottom. It needs to be at the top. There are reasons why we use this color or that color, reasons why you need the Google Analytics For me. I'm a funnel builder. I am. Yes, I love that you have a website, but I would love for your sales page to be in a funnel builder, because those analytics are different. Like we can actually break down and set up the order form. Make it a two step instead of a one step. Now we can do abandoned carts. There's so many different things that we can do, and even if you don't need a professional to do it for you, at least know enough to be like okay, I'm DIYing this, let me go. Let me see what Heywood got going on that maybe I can kind of look into. Let me listen to some podcasts that can help me on this route. Let me see what Shaunda got going on. Let Help me on this route. Let me see what Shaunda got going on. Let me see if she got like a PDF or something I can download.

Shaunda: 34:31

You know, take the tips, because all of this stuff comes from. I mean, you're a science teacher, for God's sakes, or you were. So it's like imagine you take a science teacher and you put her in this environment. Can you imagine the kind of knowledge that you have that you can now use to help people excel in their marketing efforts. As scientists like, come on, you know what I mean. But there are all these things that look, we do a lot, guys, we do, and not to like to, I'll be out here tooting horns. But there's psychology that goes into these things. There's science that goes into these things. All the data and all that kind of stuff. You know, all this stuff means something. So when you're building your sites, your sales pages, your funnels, your email marketing, you know everything has an intention behind it. So if you're building these things on your own and you don't have an intention behind it just yet, or a strategy, just take a step. Figure that out first, because we aren't just throwing these things out here willy nilly. There's always a reason why.

Tona: 35:34

Yes, that is one of the hardest things to get across to people and I think when you are able to look at it with the science behind it, it actually takes the emotion out of it, because now you're not feeling like, oh, I'm a failure because this, I didn't do this right because of this, so I need to just forget it all. It's like you can look at things in a better situation. You know, and then it just it makes you just continue to want to keep testing and keep trying to see you know what will work and then, once you know, use the numbers to help you grow Numbers are always there.

Shaunda: 36:20

Yeah, people. Just you know you don't know what you don't know you know. So I'd never feel like a failure or anything like that. You know, you just need some more information, you know, to make a new decision, that's it.

Tona: 36:33

And that's true. That's all you need. And I think, too, what you said before when you have a person like yourself, who you've been in the corporate game you've seen, you've worked with marketing in the corporate game You've seen, you've worked with marketing, then you had someone who was an actual mentor in the digital marketing space. You have years worth of knowledge that you were able to gain. So if somebody knows that, take advantage of it, reach out, get help, get the mentorship, get whatever you need from that person so that you don't have to struggle as long as some other people have had to do prior digital marketing, even being a thing yeah, that everybody knew.

Shaunda: 37:17

Yeah, and now, especially, you know we are. Well, some people say we're in a recession, some people say we're not. You know it, it's, it's up in the air, something's definitely going on, and so you really want to kind of be on, whatever it is that you can control, because a lot of external things you cannot control.

Shaunda: 37:38

So, listen, these things are things that are already inherently, you know, inside of you. You know you just need to really focus and and be be intentional. That's really the main thing I'm always like going on and about is being intentional about the work that you're doing. So, yeah, excellent, excellent point. I think this is the time where you know we kind of have to see what everybody's made of, and so this, that means that if I'm sitting here saying that actually just looks like going more, leaning more into you, then it's like sign me up, I can do that, I can lean more into me. You know, I can try See what happens.

Tona: 38:17

Yeah, so when it comes to branding, can you discuss the role of storytelling when you're trying to impact your specific target audience? Is that a really important piece of it.

Shaunda: 38:42

You don't need anybody else's opinion or anything. All you need to know is exactly what you know. I talk to a lot of people who are like, well, I don't have a story because they weren't like homeless on the street, or, you know, they don't have like a Tyler Perry story or Oprah story, and I'm like, what matters is that is yours, because people aren't scrolling Instagram looking for the trauma. You know scrolling Instagram looking for something that sounds like them, or their mom or their dad or their sister or their brother or their boyfriend or their girlfriend or their partner, whomever. They are looking for something familiar, and that's another thing.

Shaunda: 39:23

That's also hard when you're coming out of corporate, because that was not the case, and so I'm always like OK, nix the code switching, talk about yourself. I understand privacy for sure. That means, though, that let's pick some stuff that we don't mind talking about. Let's pick some little anecdotes. And notice, too if you pay attention to a lot of the big gurus, you will hear them tell the same stories over and over and over again, and that is a messaging tactic. That means they have realized, or they've honed in on the like three to five stories that they want to tell, but also the stories that probably get them the most traction, make the most impact with their target audience. So why can't you do the same? That is literally a thing.

Shaunda: 40:13

When we sit down and we do messaging work, we pick out those stories right. And then I have people that say oh, I'm so bored, are you supposed to get bored? I'm saying the same thing all the time. I'm like if you were not repeating yourself, you would not have a message. You should be repeating yourself, because what we do is we assume that everybody is hearing us.

Shaunda: 40:35

When 5% of people, 5% of your audience, is hearing you on a good day, that means every time you get on there you should be saying the same thing and allow new people to come across you. And so I like to say pick some stories or even topics. I call it your starting lineup, but it's like three to five either content, topics or stories that you can always lean into. If you're on a podcast, if you're doing a keynote, if you are doing your email, whatever it may be, you know, if you pay attention, you're going to hear the same stories from your favorite people over, and probably every time you hear it you get sucked in again, even though you already know what happens, like oh my God, she went to the bank, the money wasn't there, she had to wait on the manager to come out.

Shaunda: 41:25

You know, you know the story and you're going listen again too. It's a good story. It does what they want it to do, but it's also true to them, so it's not really like a gimmicky thing. So I love story marketing because you can you pull from yourself, you can always rehash your speech. You know, I have a free workshop right now where I kind of talk about how to use stories in your content, how to create your own story bank so that you can figure out what your stories are and figure out how to connect them to the thing that you're selling or what have you. And it's pretty popular because, again, anybody can use it.

Shaunda: 42:04

I have a lot of people who come to me who are like e-commerce people and they're like well, I can't use that because I do too, girl, they're like I can't use that. I have a restaurant like we don't tell stories about the food. I'm like are you, do you not know? People have comfort food. People will go and order a chicken pie because my granny used to make it, and when I'm sick. I need like there are stories about everything and if you just pay attention to that, what do you think commercials are? They're all stories Like. Yes, you can use story marketing in your content. I like to say that stories build relationships and relationships build businesses. Right. So once someone is like into your story, they want to follow, even if they ain't ready to buy yet. They want to know what you got going on. Just because they like you, let them like you, it's okay.

Tona: 42:56

That's a thing actually in getting business Don't like trust.

Shaunda: 43:01

Exactly, exactly, and we're seeing where you need way more of that right now. So, again, it all comes back to you. Pull out them stories. People are not as open as they used to be. It actually has to be even more so right now. So that means you can only do the things that are really going to help you to stand out, that are actually intrinsically you. That's the only way that you're going to start to kind of stand out from everyone else, Cause we're all doing similar stuff, let's face it, but we all have different people who are attached to us, with meaning that you and I might do the same thing, but there are people that are attached to you and what you're doing and you are a catalyst for them. The same way, there are people that are attached to me, and so these are things, though, that you never know upfront. That means that you just have to get out there, start talking, start putting your message out there, start telling your stories right, and there will be impact that happens that you won't even know about because it's not for you.

Shaunda: 44:02

You were just a catalyst to start it. You've stepped out on faith, right. You've answered the call. You're being obedient. You're doing what you've been called to do. And now Shaunda, who was scrolling and caught your email, now has like, oh, I thought of something, now I start, I get started and now I'm the catalyst for someone else. You know what I mean. So, but the thing is, we want to know ahead of time what's going to happen, how many people are going to be impacted, how much am I going to sell? You know what I mean. That's not how it works. That's not how it works.

Tona: 44:38

No, it's not. That's really good. Now, since we're getting to the close of this podcast, I want you to give the people one nugget that you want to leave them with at the end of this podcast, because we had a lot of good stuff. I can tell you that A lot of good stuff, a lot of stuff.

Shaunda: 45:04

A lot of stuff, a lot of stuff, but if you were to leave with one, okay. So my main point I think that I would want people to leave with is when you're building your brand, at whatever stage you're in in the journey, it's all of us can stand to put some more of ourselves into our brand, and I think that could actually solve a lot of problems that we may be having or think that right. So my biggest thing is there's always room for you and your brand. If you're sitting down looking at your stuff and you've been copying so-and-so and you're trying to figure out why it didn't work for me but it worked for her, take her out of it. If you've been working for three years, five years, and it's cool but it's not what you thought it was going to be, at this point maybe it's time to lean more into you in some area and it's scary, I think, for people because it feels like you're being put on the chopping block to be judged and all these things. But when you're really stepping into what you've been put here to do, part of that is going to require literally require you to step into it. So it's literally going to require you to lean into who you are, because that is the person that you're going to have to be in order to make these things come to pass. And I think that's always something we wrestle with, because some days you don't want to be on camera.

Shaunda: 46:35

People don't believe me when I say that the thing is, I'm so keyed in on what I'm here to see that when the light come on or the camera come on, all I got to do is open my mouth and talk and be, and I'm comfortable doing that, right, right.

Shaunda: 46:51

So that's that's why none of this, you know, bothers me, but because I don't have any energy, but I need to be by myself and get all my energy back and to like break away and be alone. But I don't have any problems showing up when it's time to talk about the message, because it literally is like intrinsically me and I am 100% sure about it. So find that thing for you. When you find that thing, stuff is not as hard as it was before, I promise you. I'm not saying it's all hunky-dory, because running a business pulls the challenge and stretch you, but when you find a thing that you are here to do or the message that you are here to get out into the world, even if it's just for that season, everything gets easier. You literally just have to turn on the mic and talk, turn on the camera and talk, that's it.

Tona: 47:46

Right, that's it. Well, thank you so much, shonda, for all your words of wisdom in this podcast, especially dealing with brand strategy. I will have your information in the description so that people can go and find you, especially that story workshop that you said that you have. You're gonna have to send me that one so that I can make sure, and it's free.

Tona: 48:14

I have that in there because that that sounds like a real good one that I'm gonna have to check that one out I'll get you the link okay, I'll get the, but thank you so much for being a part of our podcast today and, who knows, we may have you back soon to talk about something else.

Shaunda: 48:39

Ooh, I'd love to come back, yeah, oh, don't get me started on it. You'll never get rid of me if you get me up here talking about some numbers.

Tona: 48:49

I think that might be a fun one though. So yeah, so yes. Thank you so much for being here.

Shaunda: 48:56

Thank you for having me.

Al: 48:58

We're so excited that you tuned in to the latest episode of the we Pivot podcast. Thank you for joining us Now, whether this is your first time or not, please make sure to subscribe and share with a friend who can also use some digital marketing guidance as well. Until next time.