Tona Haywood: 0:02

The we Pivot podcast is for you if you're a woman who has recently pivoted into entrepreneurship. You'll find digital marketing tips, trends and strategies to help grow your business in today's digital world. Join Tona and Al Haywood as we have fun breaking down all things digital marketing, so sit back, relax and enjoy the show. Hello everyone and welcome back to the we Pivot podcast. Have I got a treat for you? Today, I will be interviewing Brenna Millville, and she is the founder of Ellie and Grace, which is a Christian apparel company. Let me tell you a little bit more about her.

Tona Haywood: 0:52

Brenna is a wife of nine years and mother to her three-year-old Grace. After attending a Christian conference in 2016, she was called to start a Christian apparel company and Ellie and Grace was started. Seven years later, brenna and her team have printed and shipped over 500,000 pieces of apparel around the world from their Missouri-based office and, most recently, have launched embroidery kits that help women relax and learn a new hobby while spending time with Jesus. When she's not creating new designs on her iPad, sending voice memos or studying scripture, you can find her drinking iced chai tea lattes year-round, hiding in the shade while chasing her toddler around the park and trying not to show her extremely competitive nature at casual game nights with her friends. Welcome, brenna, to the we Pivot podcast. So excited that you're here.

Brenna Millville: 1:55

Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. This is going to be so much fun.

Tona Haywood: 1:59

Yes it is, and you know it's so funny. You said you have a casual competitive nature at game nights. I feel like that's something that I have too, but it goes when we're playing Uno. My family is avid Uno players and we always play and I always seem to get a little bit competitive. So that's something we have in common.

Brenna Millville: 2:23

I try not to be competitive. But as I've gotten to know my group of friends over the last four years, they just know how I am now. So now I just own it.

Tona Haywood: 2:32

Right, that's right, you have to. I mean, what's your favorite game?

Brenna Millville: 2:36

Oh gosh. So I've really been liking cards, christians like I find it to be so hilarious. I guess it's not really a game you can win, but I also like Catan, I like Risk, I like those type of games. Dominance is like okay. So lots of different games, lots of different ones.

Tona Haywood: 2:54

Okay, I've never gotten to Catan. I've seen it before, never played it Risk. I feel like the last time we played that, my husband and I played and just left the pieces on the board and I think we never got back to it One day, though One day we will. So one of the first questions that I've had I've been an admirer of yours from afar for a long time and I've always said, man, you have really nice products and you seem to have grown exponentially over time. And I've always said, man, you have really nice products and you seem to have grown exponentially over time.

Tona Haywood: 3:29

And I've always admired that, especially in the Christian apparel space, because I also, as Tona, my husband and I have a Christian apparel company too, called to Edify Boutique, which started a long time ago, and staying in the race and continuing is really hard a lot of times and I've seen people come and go and all of these different things. But you have stood the test of time and I thank God that you have in your company. And so one of the questions that I know myself and my listeners want to know is what do you feel was the pivotal moment or experience that actually led you to realize the need to start Ellie and Grace, and how did this concept evolve over time?

Brenna Millville: 4:29

over time. So in 2016, I was working at a nonprofit and I just wasn't. I felt like my mission and my values and their mission and values were really starting to deviate from each other. I don't think that I was really changing. I think that they were more changing.

Brenna Millville: 4:40

And so I went to this Christian conference and I'm not really I'm pretty introverted, so I don't like to go to things by myself. So I told myself that I would invite my busiest friend. If she could go, then I would go, but I knew she wouldn't be able to go, so that was going to be my out, so I wouldn't have to go, but she could go. So she went with me and while we were in, when we walked in the door, they had it was a church and they sold apparel. And I looked at their apparel and they only had ladies small. That doesn't fit a lot of people. Like, basically, it fits almost no one, because ladies small is even smaller than unisex. So I was like, oh, that's a bummer, I wish they had like other sizes, and I didn't really think anything else about it. Then we went into the conference and the speaker was talking. She was talking about being fearless and in my mind. I just felt, well, you could start a Christian t-shirt company. And I was like, well, that's a weird thought. I've never thought about this my like.

Brenna Millville: 5:37

When I worked at the nonprofit I was working with numbers, I was doing fundraising, I was doing mail, like I was doing. I wasn't doing a lot of creative stuff really at all, so it was very out of my realm. So I thought, okay, I'll tell my husband this idea. I'm sure he's going to tell me it's a terrible idea, and then that's going to be it. But instead he was like, okay, I think we could do that. And then, just like my, my brother, and my brother was getting married, so I was really helping with the wedding. So I'm like I'm going to wait, so after the wedding, then I'm going to start this activity. It was like a month later. But then after that I got a year end bonus the nonprofit.

Brenna Millville: 6:16

Their year was fiscal year, so it was July one to June 30. And I got a bonus and it was for like the exact amount I would need for like a cricket machine and a heat press. So I was like, ok, I can do this. So I started doing it and I we started on Etsy and my husband was like you can just sell one shirt a day. Then I think that's fine and I was like, ok, so I did that and that was great and we let's see that was in June no-transcript, wonderful. And he was like, no, this is not sustainable, we need to move out into a new location. So we moved the office out of our house into a building and then that was kind of the beginning, okay.

Tona Haywood: 7:49

Wow, and so you basically, when you were working at the nonprofit, you did this alongside with the nonprofit and Ellie and Grace, so you were doing both at the same time for a little while.

Brenna Millville: 8:04

I had an hour commute there and then an hour commute back, which I absolutely hated. It was probably one of my least favorite things about going there, because it was very trafficy and it was just. It was just like a bad. It just put me in a bad headspace every day. And then one day I was just like I just need to take this time and do something else with it. So I started listening to business podcasts and learning about there were. Their podcasts aren't really around anymore, but there were a few of them that were around then that I would listen to every single time and they were about like women who had started Etsy shops. I'm like, ok, so I could learn about this. So I just kind of treated it as two hours of continuing education and I worked four days a week, so that was eight hours a week that I could just learn things instead of just sitting in my car being like I can't believe I have to go to this job. This is terrible. This is just like making me like perpetuating that.

Tona Haywood: 8:55

I turned that time and made it into something beneficial and that's great, because I believe that probably gave you motivation to kind of keep going and not think so much about the job you hated, but something else that you were putting your time and energy into. I like that. And at what stage did you decide to expand Ellie and Grace? Or was that the stage when you realized the basement was being overtaken by clothes, product and all of these different things? Was that the stage when it just got like, okay, this is not sustainable at all?

Brenna Millville: 9:34

Logistically, it was pretty challenging to be working all the time like that. It was doable. But we also had other things, like we had too many packages and USPS didn't want to come pick them up from our house, and so it would be beneficial to have a space for, and have a designated pickup where, like a more industrial truck came every day. It was the first thing we had to outsource was customer service, because you can't be like packing shirts and also responding to emails at the same time, unfortunately. I wish that that was possible, because that would really help us out. But so there were just a lot of little things. And then, especially once we had grace in 2020, in January 2020, which was a crazy time then I wasn't physically able to do what I was like I did before before. We were in a busy time.

Brenna Millville: 10:22

Then, if I remember this one time, it was supposed to start snowing at like 7am, and snow in like this time of year is great sometimes, but when you have a certain number of orders, you need to get out every day. Losing a whole day can really set you back. So I was like it's fine, I'll just go to the office before it snows at like three and I'll just wait until they clear the roads in the evening and then I'll just go home. So I can't do that now because I have a toddler, but I was able to do it then and I did, and I would just ramp up and ramp down. So having a great team right now that's able to do those things is very helpful. So I don't have to come in at 3am before the snow come in at 3 am before the snow.

Tona Haywood: 11:08

Right, and that's good. That's good. And with your team, how are you able to decide who is going to be on your team? What qualities were you looking for in a good team?

Brenna Millville: 11:16

The most important thing I think about in a great team aren't necessarily that they can do the specific job that you're hiring them for. Like, can they cut fabric for embroidery kits? Probably yes. Can they pack and ship in order? Probably yes. All of our skills can be taught. So then it's mainly on attitude and work ethic. So that's kind of what we make. That's what we definitely put above the other, like the skills, just because of the nature of what we do. We're not like mechanics, so you don't have to, you can't go to school to do these specific things. So it's mainly just about attitude and work ethic for us. Okay.

Tona Haywood: 11:54

That makes sense. How big is your team now?

Brenna Millville: 11:58

I'm very lucky that I'm able to do most of the creative things and my husband handles almost all the business side of things. So we have, we have a manager, we have, let's see, I'd say around 10, 10 to 15. It varies on the year, like it varies when we're like like right now is our very busy time and the summer is usually our slower time, so it just kind of varies based on the time of year.

Tona Haywood: 12:25

Okay, that is really good to know. Um, as an entrepreneur in the faith-based apparel industry, what has been your most significant challenges?

Brenna Millville: 12:39

I had to laugh when I read this question, honestly, because I would say one of the biggest challenges to us was kind of a I would in my like positive attitude, I would say an unintended consequence. In my negative attitude, I would maybe say purposeful. But after the 2020 election, facebook chose to remove a lot of interest. Facebook chose to remove a lot of interest for, um, the brain of bad specific people, yes, and a lot of our people obviously are christians. If you're not a christian, you probably don't want to wear a christian shirt. So when they chose to remove all that stuff, it was very challenging because it was hard. It's harder for us to find our people because of the decision they made to do that. So I say that's been a pretty big challenge.

Brenna Millville: 13:29

Um, I would say another challenge and I don't know if this is faith industry, specific though that one really was is just people taking our designs and steal like literally taking our pictures and then selling them for like a fourth of the price, which is frustrating, and they're doing it. Some of my friends to someone just messaged me a picture yesterday and she was like Can you make this for me? And I was like no, I can't because that's not my design, but also I know whose design that is, and so I sent them a picture and I was like, hey, you might want to file something with this like overseas company because they're selling your design as their own and that's not right and they should do their own work. But I wanted to let them know. So that's definitely that's been an ongoing challenge. I'd say that's one of the benefits of our new book and doll collection is that that's a lot harder to rip off it is definitely like that and I think the embroidery kits.

Tona Haywood: 14:32

It's kind of hard to do that.

Brenna Millville: 14:33

Well, this is funny. So that picture I was telling you about it was actually. Someone actually took a picture of this woman's embroidery kit. Put it on a shirt.

Tona Haywood: 14:44

Wow.

Brenna Millville: 14:45

Yeah, I know I was like they are really getting bold with it. That is kind of bold and people commented on it. They're like, how would this wash? And I'm just like, well, not well, because it's an embroidery kit.

Tona Haywood: 14:59

And they literally took the picture off her website, removed the hoop and put it on a shirt. Oh yeah, that is. That's not good.

Tona Haywood: 15:16

I do understand what you taught what you're talking about with the Facebook part. I know that I would dabble in ads every now and again and from the time that I started dabbling in ads to like, let's say, today, when I went on most recently, I was like, wait, what happened? Like what happened with the interest, what happened with all of the things that I was I used to be able to you to check? Those things aren't there anymore. And it's like well, am I going to be spending money to waste on people who may or may not like these specific things? To come to my page, there are so many changes with Facebook, I tell you. Every time I would go back in, it was just like okay, this is just too much, I can't, I just can't even deal with it. Now the part about people taking other individuals work and trying to sell it as their own. I haven't yet seen mine anywhere, but I can't. I can't confirm or deny that it's not.

Brenna Millville: 16:16

There's so many of them. I only find out when people message me about it. Right, it's frustrating, because then I see it and I'm like why?

Tona Haywood: 16:25

Why, exactly, especially. And then the selling of it is such lower prices where people are going to be like, oh, this price is so in my, you know, in my affordability, you know, I can just go ahead and just get it. That can be very, very frustrating.

Brenna Millville: 16:45

And then another thing that happened I'd say that was frustrating is the whole fact checking and all of that, which is I understand why they did that. Over the summer I had a reel that I posted and it was about the devil and trying to like us not being concerned about the devil because we're strong in the word, but the Instagram algorithm thought it was about the border. And then everyone that follows me gets a notification that's like are you sure you want to follow this account? Because it's been like they've posted misinformation and if someone tries to tag me, they'll also get the same warning. So now I'm getting messages every day being like oh hey, did you know this is happening? And I'm like, yeah, I actually have an auto thing that I just like type in one word and it sends my thing Right. It's exhausting to have to explain it every single time, and I tried to appeal it and they were like no, wow, so they'll have to throw up and look for it.

Tona Haywood: 17:44

It had like the little misinformation like I think I remember that, I feel like I remember seeing that and they're still doing that now, like every time. Oh, that's annoying.

Brenna Millville: 17:54

It's extremely annoying.

Tona Haywood: 17:59

Oh, and another question just about the apparel Do you design it all yourself or is there a collaborative effort with team of designers? I think you might have said this already, that you design it all yourself said this already that you designed it all yourself.

Brenna Millville: 18:16

But so previously, the past seven years, yes, I've designed everything myself, with the exception of our new men's line that just came out last week, and my husband worked with another designer on that because I just didn't feel called to specifically design men's wear myself. That's not my forte. So, other than the spirit shield line, everything else is designed by me, ok that's nice.

Tona Haywood: 18:36

I'm glad that you got your husband involved and got a designer to design the men's part, because sometimes I feel like when you're a Christian boutique owner especially when you're doing most of the things yourself, like myself when it comes to the design space, we tend to just be like you know what I can do, that I can get that done. But knowing these are the things that I'm good at versus this is something that somebody else needs to take on so that we can best use our time, energy, effort and resources. So it can be good Makes sense. And can you walk us through your design process? How do you find inspiration and develop new ideas?

Brenna Millville: 19:27

So what I generally do now that we've been doing this for so long. We mainly design for seasonal collections. So I'll go back, I'll see what did well, what didn't do as well as we'd hoped. Then those items will be retired. Then sometimes I'll use those phrases or those verses for future designs.

Brenna Millville: 19:44

So I'm not necessarily having to generate everything out of thin air like I used to, because I'm kind of just redoing what I've done in the past, with the exception of the embroidery kits, because those are brand new. So it's kind of fun to be able to come up with something, cause now I'm like a little limited in my designing for shirts, because it has to it can only be so many colors. Well, I guess embroidery kits can only be so many colors too, but my it's larger and if I really want them to be more, I can. It's just you have to put another thread in the bundle, and sometimes you know that could be a lot. I can do a lot, but it's nice to be able to have this creative kind of mind expansion to where I can do whatever I want. So when I'm thinking I'm actually designing for Easter right now, then we're in Buc-ee's. So they do, they want their stuff about six months in advance. So right now I'm doing 4th of July and Mother's Day for apparel and I'm doing Easter for embroidery.

Brenna Millville: 20:42

So I'm thinking about Easter and I'm like what do I want to see on the Easter design? What do I like see in my mind? And usually I can see it somewhat clearly, at least for a first draft, and then I usually have to like rip it out and restitch it a few times to choose, like the exact right colors, but that's kind of what I do. And then for the holidays it's just what has done. Well, do I want to reiterate it Like? I believe like Mary Design has been a good seller for us since we started it. It's kind of similar to my women of the Bible design that I created. So I was like I liked that design. I want to try to do a Christmas design that's like my woman of the Bible design, so that I kind of do it like that and just see what hits me.

Tona Haywood: 21:26

Okay, I like that. What made you decide to get into the embroidery portion and the book and dolls?

Brenna Millville: 21:35

like what made you decide to kind of lean into that a little bit, um more in this season so two Christmases ago we were, I guess, between Christmas and New Year's I'd just been feeling like there was something else I wanted to do with. I wanted to do something else if there, I wanted to still do apparel but been feeling like there was something else I wanted to do with. I wanted to do something else if there, I wanted to still do apparel. But I felt like there was something else I needed to do. And I always loved American Girl dolls. I never had one, but I had all the books I really love to read and I'd also been going to our local library with my daughter and I'm like some of these books. I just don't like them. And if the world is not going to be shy about putting out their values for children, then we should also not be shy about putting out our values for children, right? So I wanted to create a something that was kind of along those lines where there was a doll that someone could see, a child could see, and they could associate it with the characters in the books. And then I wanted to do three and I wanted to have them. I was envisioning like a marvel universe type of situation, because they, like each have a main character. But then the other people make like support. They're supporting roles in each right, okay. Okay, even if they get one doll, they'll still see the other three in the book and if they want to get them in the future, that's totally fine.

Brenna Millville: 22:57

But I actually came out with that idea even though they released six months after the embroidery kits. I came out with it two years ago. It just took a long time to get the books. Actually, it didn't take a long time to get the books written. I wrote the books in like a week. But all the rest of the process took an extremely long time.

Brenna Millville: 23:15

And then, with embroidery, I was stitching every night because I just enjoyed it. It's relaxing, it's fun to have something to do that's not on a screen. And so I just I first started just making kits for my friends that I would be like okay, I know that you really like this certain verse, so I'm going to make this for you. And last year I made little cross. Stitch is slightly different, it's basically a bunch of little X's but I made like family portraits for all my friends.

Brenna Millville: 23:43

And then I was working on these embroidery kits and I was like, well, maybe we can sell them. We'll do like a little test and see how it goes and people are really loving them, I think. With just technology being so in your face all the time, it's nice to have something that you're just physically doing with your hands, and one of my favorite things to do with it is like listen to a podcast while I'm stitching, or listen to an audio book or listen to worship music, and I use that time to really decompress. I usually try to stitch at least like an hour a night, you know that's the funny thing about that.

Tona Haywood: 24:18

I had a friend from church who did knitting. She was, she was an avid knitter, and I kept saying you know, I just I'm always on the screen, I'm tired of being on the screen, I'm going to learn how to knit. Can you show me? It didn't go over well. And it's the same with sewing, because my mom actually she sews all the time and she taught me how to sew, but I didn't pick it up like she did, and so for me it was kind of one of those things that I don't think I'm going to deal with this. But with embroidery it seems like you give the instructions right, and so is it pretty self-explanatory and easy to follow, Even for a person that, like me, doesn't like to sew.

Brenna Millville: 25:14

I would say yes, it comes with everything you need except scissors. There is a written PDF that's like step one use this thread and this stitch to complete this area. We also have videos of every single stitch, because it's, of course, very hard to explain a stitch in written form and once you know it, then you know it. It might seem like it's intimidating, but once you start it and you're like okay, now I know, let's say, the French knot. Well, this French knot is only done one way. So once you know it, you know it, and then you can do those parts of the project. So I usually recommend to people is they like, read the PDF and like, okay, I'm doing this part first with this stitch. Go watch the video, go do it and then go to the next one and if you have any questions, just message me or DM me.

Brenna Millville: 26:01

I just told someone this morning to send me a video because I was like it might be easier for you to explain via video what your question is and then I can let you know how to do it. Because I just feel very strongly that if people are intent, if they let themselves like, accept that it might be. You know, it can be a little intimidating, but if they go ahead and do it, then they'll be happy that they did and it's a great skill to have and it's a fun way to make like a special project for someone or just keep them in your house. I need to figure out how I can need to display mine, cause I obviously have quite a few of the hoops and they're all just sitting in a stack, cause I use them for content, of course, and I'm like I need to put them somewhere and, like make them pretty, Display it in a bookcase or something I think on a shelf bookcase, something like that you should do.

Tona Haywood: 26:52

And I'm thinking about it. I might have to just get one and just dive in, because I believe, like you say, we're always on the screen and whether you're designing or whether you're doing social media, email, whatever, it's all on a screen. And trying to get away from that is always good to use a different part of your brain as well.

Brenna Millville: 27:18

The other thing that's nice about it is if you're doing something else, you're not on the computer and say your phone's on, do not disturb, or silent. You're not getting interrupted, at least by any digital interruptions.

Tona Haywood: 27:32

That's right.

Brenna Millville: 27:33

Then you're. It's hard sometimes when you're on your computer that you can set it so you don't disturb. You can X out of all your messaging notifications, but they're still kind of there. But if you've got your hands on a hoop and one hand's holding it and the other one's stitching, you can't be like oh, I wonder what is going on over there. Oh, I wonder if anyone messaged me because your hands are busy.

Tona Haywood: 27:51

That's right, that's true, and you're right, because if you are even on your computer or your computers nearby.

Brenna Millville: 28:03

There's still this innate desire to go to it, Like calling to you. Yeah, it does it speaks.

Tona Haywood: 28:07

I agree with you on that one. So for those interested in entering the faith-based or inspirational apparel market, what advice would you offer to them?

Brenna Millville: 28:20

I would say the most important thing is to be original and to try to come up with your own things that don't look like anyone else's, and to especially not see someone's design and think, oh, I like that, I'm going to take that exact design and sell it for myself, because then you're not really doing your own thing and so you're not. You're not able to be a unique business and like differentiate yourself, because you just look like everyone else. You want to be able to be yourself, kind of with. Like the three essential elements of starting a business being able to be yourself, providing a quality product and quality customer service are all very, very important to establish your brand. I think in general with a successful business and I know people have had success on Etsy but I think that also being able to have once you're able to have your own website, that's very important.

Brenna Millville: 29:13

Being able to have once you're able to have your own website that's very important because whenever people get something on Etsy like I just bought a Nutcracker sweatshirt for Grace two days ago on Etsy I could not tell you the name of the business at all. I got it on Etsy but I don't remember where. Like they all looked the same. So, but if you have your own brand and you're able to establish that, then instead of someone saying, oh, I got that on Etsy, they can say, oh, I got that on Ellie and Grace. And that's really what you want, because you want to be able to get brand loyalty and bring them back to you. Instead of now, the next time I want a Nutcracker sweatshirt, I'm just going to get on Etsy, right, I won't necessarily buy it from the same person, because I won't even remember.

Tona Haywood: 29:51

That is so true. Buy it from the same person because I won't even remember. That is so true. That is so true. And I think most times individuals, they go to SD first because it's like this is a way to get free traffic, I don't have to worry about my own traffic. But there's such a competition out there with the same thing that you're doing, so how do you get those eyeballs on you in a concentrated space when somebody can click on you and click off really quick and they're somewhere else?

Brenna Millville: 30:15

It'll say they'll be on your page Like this happened to me when I was looking at the Nutcracker sweatshirts and it says you might also like. And there's like three more sweatshirts that look basically the same and they're all from different businesses.

Tona Haywood: 30:28

So you can very easily go to another business and then you're somewhere else entirely businesses, so you can very easily go to another business and then you're somewhere else entirely, that's true, and then you don't even know how to get back to the one that you were at in the beginning. So that makes sense. So were those your essential elements for a successful business as well? The customer service.

Brenna Millville: 30:47

Yes, the quality product and the originality yes.

Tona Haywood: 30:50

Okay, those are perfect Now. I see you all the time on Instagram.

Brenna Millville: 30:56

Well, thank you, I don't feel like I'm on there as much as I used to be. I used to post every day and then I was like I cannot do this anymore. It's too hard it is too hard.

Tona Haywood: 31:05

Well, I guess it seems to me that you are consistent. So, whatever your consistency schedule looks like, it looks consistent to me. Okay, could you share some of the strategies for maintaining an effective and consistent email and social media marketing strategy?

Brenna Millville: 31:27

Yes, we actually have a person on our team that does the email marketing, primarily with my husband, so that's extremely helpful. That's right scheduled and later, two weeks out, but right now, because it's busy, it's a little bit of an imperfect world, so I'm kind of posting a little bit more on the fly, but I try to have, like I have, real drafts. I'm kind of committing the cardinal, I'm breaking the rule. I don't have any of the drafts saved other than an instagram. So if something happens to Instagram, I'm going to be totally. But you know, oh well, it is yeah, and just trying to take pictures.

Brenna Millville: 32:17

When I'm able to take pictures, remembering like okay, I'm at the office today, I need to take some. If I ship orders today, which I probably will, I need to like set up my phone and get some, like some video of that, I need to take some pictures and just having that type of stuff. So then when I'm ready to post, I don't have to think, oh no, now I need to go take that picture because I already have it. So that's also very helpful. I do like I prefer to have scheduled content. I just because I've been helping a lot with production, because we've been busy with Black Friday it, I haven't been able to do it as much as I would like, so here's a question, since you do dive into social media a lot when you have time, based on the season that you're in.

Tona Haywood: 33:01

Okay, it can differ. Do you feel that the majority of your sales come from social media like Instagram, facebook and things like this, and this is without ads, without doing ads, do you feel like the majority comes from there, or does the majority really come from people finding you online and your repeat customers?

Brenna Millville: 33:26

We do have a high return customer rate because of our product and our customer service, which I think is why those are two of the essential elements, and our email list is also very important. I think, in general, an email list is extremely important because there have been times where, you know, instagram has gone down and Facebook has gone down and we never. We can't really rely on those things, but we have our email lists and that's a way that we can directly get into people's mailboxes. So I would say that email. I've technically been in this space for a very long time, probably since 2011.

Tona Haywood: 34:18

And it started out just my husband and I.

Tona Haywood: 34:21

We were wanted to see pictures in every house with, like my poetry and his photography graphic design, so we would put something together and we were doing it by hand.

Tona Haywood: 34:35

For first off, it was friends and family were buying them, and then we're trying to figure out how to do this better, where we could scale it and not be, you know, doing all this stuff ourselves.

Tona Haywood: 34:46

And eventually there were things that came about that enabled us to do that, like print on demand and things of that nature, and that's primarily what we use. But the reason why is we have a whole our other businesses, digital marketing, where we help businesses with their websites and things like that. So we do both of these in conjunction, but we know that this over here can be sustained by the print on demand, and so that's what we do on you know, pretty much on this side. But when it comes to social media, you can tell that I can post, I can do stories, I can do this, I can do that, but there aren't really a whole lot of sales that come from that. Most times, it does come from the people who decided to be on your list, who decided to purchase, who decide to repurchase those committed customers that you've built a bond with.

Brenna Millville: 35:41

So I heard someone say once I don't remember who it was that social media is almost like it's more for nurturing your current customers the people who already know you to be like, to just kind of.

Brenna Millville: 35:52

So that's kind of how I treat it. We definitely get new people. I just had a real and this is also on content and you can have super simple content my most watched video real ever by like a significant amount. I think. It is at like 1.2 million. Wow, which is crazy to me. I've never not like I'm talking like by by a lot like. The next one was maybe like 20,000. So a lot higher, and it was just about reading a chapter of Luke every day, december 1st to December 24th, because there are 24 chapters, right, and so now I wasn't planning on posting about my reading every morning, but now, since that reel went viral, I've created a highlight and I'm like Okay, I'm just going to post a few things that I thought of whenever I was reading the reading of the day, and I'm just going to post it in the morning. I'll save it to the highlights and if anyone wants that information, it's available. That was just a simple one. You never know what.

Tona Haywood: 36:48

Instagram is you don't. And I think that's the hard part, because when you're doing things on Instagram, you can go into this looking to see what everybody else is doing, looking to see what gets the most views, and then you try it and you see if it works. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't, but it doesn't really increase anything per se. It doesn't give you new email signups, it doesn't give you new followers. Like, I had a reel that my top reel had about close to 50,000 views, but it was just me mimicking someone else singing and that was it. And it's like oh okay, that was great, but it didn't really change anything. So I think for each person I think that's the takeaway Each person you have to figure out what works for you and where you're at in your season, because it may not look the same as everyone else and you have to be okay with that and be able to be consistent. However, it works for your season.

Brenna Millville: 37:56

Yes, and with posts, and sometimes posts not doing as well and sometimes reels not doing as well. If someone who's listening to this is has had that problem and I've had that problem it's not because you're bad and it's not because you're not talented and you're not using the skills God gave you. It's just because the algorithm is weird and it's not a reflection on your business or who you are as a person.

Tona Haywood: 38:23

I agree, because I know a lot of times there will be people that will preach at you your content is not right, your content is not right. Your content is not right, your content is not right. But you can put out something that will resonate with a lot of people, but those people will just never see it because it didn't take off in the way that it was supposed to take off in order for the algorithm to continue to push you out. And so it doesn't mean that whatever you did wasn't good enough. It's just that how things work on the back end. That may have prevented people from seeing it, but it doesn't negate you still doing what you were called to do and being obedient. Whoever was supposed to be reached, they would be reached.

Tona Haywood: 39:16

On that note, since we are always in the social media space and looking and seeing and all of these other things, what other people are doing, how do you prevent comparison? Because I tell you, with a lot of the big name Christian apparel companies like yourself, every time I see like oh my gosh, they have out their fall line already. I'm still struggling over here. Like, look, they're already here and I'm not there yet, like what you know. And then I'll go back into this rat race of OK. Well, I got to be out just like everybody else is out. I got to hurry up and I got to do this and then I finally figured I had to look at myself and said Tona, you're one person, you're not, it's just you. You don't have the same resources that everyone else has and you can't keep putting these extra pressures on yourself to be where others are. That's not what I have for you right now. So how do you speak to that piece? The comparison that can come in at times.

Brenna Millville: 40:20

It is. It's definitely challenging. You're not alone in that. Like when I was saying earlier that I was working, I need to be working on the Mother's Day and 4th of July line. I need to have it done by the end of the year, and I'm already feeling like a slacker and we're talking about, like that's six months away, right so, but I need to have it done by the end of the month. So I'm already feeling that like, why can't I get this out sooner? What's wrong with me? So you're definitely not alone in that.

Brenna Millville: 40:44

I would say if there is a account, or more, more than one account that is making you feel terrible about yourself, then I would advise to unfollow or mute if you don't want to unfollow them, because you're afraid you're going to, like cause some drama in the social media world. And the other thing that I would say is to try to change your attitude to cheering the other people on I can't say that I've experienced this back. The other people on I can't say that I've experienced this back. But there are people that like I, like I see online. I'm like, oh, I wish I would have thought of that. Oh, I really like that, and then I just try to be like that looks great and like, try, like really mean it because it does look great.

Brenna Millville: 41:25

Do I wish I would have thought of it? Yes, but I'll think of something else. So that's okay, and we all have different things. If our stuff all look the same, it would be a bummer. So just trying to remember that comparison is really can destroy everything, not just our joy, but really all of our like, everything we have. And so trying to remember that. But you can unfollow, you can mute, you can do those type of things if it would make you feel better. I also try not to do a lot of scrolling, which is funny. I'm like, on one hand, I'm like my posts don't get very much reach and, on the other hand, I'm like I don't even really scroll the feed anymore. I don't really watch stories, I know.

Tona Haywood: 42:10

Exactly and that I find that I'll go on. I will search a couple of things. I will probably look at my stories or whatever. I have the most fun in my stories. Actually, that's where I I tend to do. I've just decided I I'll spend my time in the stories, cause at least I know that these few people that are there, they're there, they come to be encouraged, because I can't, on the feed itself, you may not reach anybody these days, so. So it's like I'll go there and do that. But you're right, there's been a lack of me really scrolling and staying on there, because you get all of these different messages that I don't really need to get right now. That does it, you know. Hey, you need to use this audio or this audio or this. It's like, ok, I'm out again. So that does make a lot of sense. And how can you, or how do you, balance the creative demands with the business side of running Ellie and Grace?

Brenna Millville: 43:19

So the wonderful thing is, now that we've been around for so long, this is our seventh seventh year yeah, seventh year and my husband is very good at the business side and all of that. So luckily I don't have to do a lot of that, which is very convenient Because since Grace was born I've had childcare one or two days a week. Now she's in school two days a week. Next year she'll be in school three days a week. Then she'll go to kindergarten, which is crazy to me.

Brenna Millville: 43:46

But there isn't enough physical time for me to do all of those things Like. Even now I have about 14 hours a week that I'm able to like dedicatedly work, but because it's a busy time, half of those hours are spent helping production, so I have even less time to do the things like prepare for Easter and Mother's Day and Fourth of July. So I'm making sure to stitch at night because I have all these things that I want to get done. There's only so much time in the day. So sometimes, even when you've been established for a long time and you have an amazing team, you still have to work at night and in the morning, sometimes based on the season, and that's okay.

Tona Haywood: 44:29

That's true. It's all based on the season that you're in. It's kind of like an ebb and flow and since this is a digital marketing podcast, what is one critical component of digital marketing for your business that must not be overlooked under any circumstance?

Brenna Millville: 44:53

that must not be overlooked under any circumstance. I would say the most important thing is to be on things. Whether you have an email list, you have to have something. I think it's very challenging to do this and not have anything. I have two friends that are like I'm just not gonna have social media at all and they have businesses and they have email lists. But I'm just like, is that really working? I'm not sure. Maybe it is. At least they have an email list. It's better than nothing. But you have to have something.

Brenna Millville: 45:21

And also it's important to be yourself and bring that personality to the brand. Even if you don't want to show your face on camera or you don't want to have like your face and stories and you want it to be more like less personal, you still need to have some elements to where people know you're not like spam company. I guess is a better word to describe it, because a lot of those type of companies the ones that seal designs, the ones that like those type of things they don't have any information about who has created them, because they can't, because it's just like a bot that's created the whole thing. So you want to be able to be yourself and have some sort of personality, even if you're just showing like your hands or the back of your head and stuff like that.

Brenna Millville: 46:08

Grace was recognized in person a few years ago, which was a little concerning to me as her mother. So now I only show usually I'll show like the side of her face, or I haven't shown like her full profile in a little while, except for on our so loved collection, because like that's kind of her, it's for her Right. So there's it. You're able to create boundaries and do things like that. My husband does not want to be on social media so whenever I show pictures it's like usually and it's very rare, like for small business Saturday it's the back of his head.

Tona Haywood: 46:40

Right.

Brenna Millville: 46:41

Or if I'm like doing a picture and stories, I'll put like a block over, like a block of text right over his face. There you go, so just be creative with it. There are ways that you can hold those boundaries and still be personal and try not to be too serious and try to have fun, because if you're miserable doing your digital marketing and your business, then you're probably not doing. You're probably not doing what you should be doing. Maybe you're not, maybe you're not. That's not what you're supposed to do and you should do something else. Maybe it's not the right, maybe the business isn't the right fit for you. There are other things. If you're not happy doing your own business, then you probably should think about what you should pivot and change to make yourself not feel unhappy.

Tona Haywood: 47:28

That makes sense, not feel unhappy that makes sense, and so when you say be on something, do you mean like, be on like?

Brenna Millville: 47:44

social media like pick one yes, you have to exist to have digital marketing. That's true. And if you don't, then you can't.

Tona Haywood: 47:49

That's true, very true. Well, I appreciate you answering all of these questions in our time today. Is there any last bit of information that you would give to our listeners today?

Brenna Millville: 48:09

I would say the most important thing to do is to if you have, if you're thinking about starting a business, or if you're wondering the direction your business should go in, or if you're feeling frustrated or really if you're feeling anything you should always be praying and reading the Bible and making those some of your top priorities so that you can make sure that your priorities are able to stay in line. Sometimes, when we get very busy as entrepreneurs and maintaining our home and with our families, it's very easy to say you know, I'm just going to read that tomorrow I don't need to, I am too busy to spend time with God today, but tomorrow and he understands because I'm doing something for him. But that's not the attitude that we should have. So I would say that is one of the top priorities that we should have, no matter the season, whether we're busy or slow, or it's chaotic or peaceful, we should always be turning to that first.

Tona Haywood: 49:03

That is so true that keeps us on the right path, on the path that he has for us, Exactly, exactly right. Well, Brenna, I want to thank you for being our guest today on the we Pivot podcast. This whole interview was very enlightening and I am sure that people who listen to it will be educated and inspired with their own business, especially with the digital marketing and things that they have that the Lord has given them to do. So thank you so much for being here.

Brenna Millville: 49:42

Thank you so much for having me.

Tona Haywood: 49:44

You're so welcome.

Al Haywood: 49:46

We're so excited that you tuned in to the latest episode of the we Pivot podcast. Thank you for joining us. Now, whether this is your first time or not, please make sure to subscribe and share with a friend who can also use some digital marketing guidance as well. Until next time.